In a Pfarrei in the diocese ministers and Pfarrei are together-guessed/advised Mainz.

(, four-home kreuz.net) in the municipality pc. Aposteln in the city center of four-home prevails to Unfriede.

The city belonged to the Diözese Mainz and is in south Hessen.

On 28 February the local daily paper spoke `south Hessen Morgen' of one „muddled situation “between parts of the Pfarrei and the minister.

Pc. Aposteln is united at present in a Pfarrgruppe with the municipality pc. Marien.

The believers it is clear that for the minister of pc. the Marien, Hw. Ronald Givens, no easy task is.

At the same time several important circles of the Pfarrei feel pushed by the obviously cholerischen clergyman before the head.

For at the end of January minister already turned out together and believer. In a service minister criticized Givens groupings like catholic employee movement, Kolpingsfamilie or woman federation, because they had not been present with a panel discussion over store opening times.

Among the attacking ranked at that time also the CDU, which rejected the reproaches as „essentially unfoundedly and in the form inadequately “.

The Christian democrats were not informed about the meeting. Before a public expression the party would have wished itself a clarifying discussion of the minister.

Minister Givens sees that differently. It pointed out in the church only that the responsible persons in this important question should take position. Besides is the date publicly admits been.

Further points of conflict came with the Pfarrgemeinderatssitzung on 17 February to light.

The first topic: Alcohol problems in the youth camp pc. Aposteln.

Ministers Givens and its deacon Roberto Medovic required a written obligation of line and kitchen team of the youth camp ultimatively and contractually to do with the spare time without hard Alkoholika.

Ministers and deacon of an attorney let treaty system examine.

The measure did not take place groundlessly. In the past there were problems in this connection occasionally.

Catholic youth and kitchen personnel agree contentwise, felt however to injustice attacked and under pressure set.

They criticized one „willingness to have talks lacking “. Ministers and deacon pounded on their responsibility and let see through that they did not give faith to the asseverations of the concerning.

Already in the following item on the agenda came the next conflict to the light: The Liturgie committee of pc. Aposteln explained its dissolution.

The committee justified its decision that minister Givens had quit his participation in the meetings. Thus a further work is not possible.

The minister justified its „temporary “absence with date difficulties. Therefore it by another full-time one in the committee am represented.

Critics of the minister believe that the dissolution of the Liturgie committee with a discussion had to be prevented in quality.

Now increased themselves the voices, which demand a neutral arbitration of arguments.

`The south Hessen Morgen' quotes the letter of a member of the Pfarrgemeinderats. This asks to think all involved ones, instead of pouring „oil in the fire “.

With some persons prevail „a abyss-deep distrust “in relation to minister and deacon.

The author wishes itself that we succeed in the future differentiating with discussions clearly between the thing and the relations conflict.

Particularly with view of the topic alcohol in the camp stresses the writer:

„With” and thus Basta “- strategies one reached never in the adult and youth work of something positive. “

Hyazinth: Benedikt

The priest is subjected to the church administration „“, in addition, not in liturgical things. The resolution of the PFGR can be completely all the same it, is not binding!

Benedikt: @ hyazinth

Which „Liturgie FAILURE “nowadays still adheres to its authority

They have naturally representative studies to this topic.

I know the conditions in my place and in the surrounding Pfarreien. And there is it like that, as I say it. In addition one can assume many ministers of the council generation completely similar conception we have their Liturgieausschüsse.

The Liturgieausschuss has however actually no own authority. Regarding the Liturgie the priest is responsible, regarding all other questions is subjected he the PGR.

Hyazinth: Benedikt

In your Blümchenwelt with many Elfen and charm inside that may be perhaps like that! Be awake times on man! Which „Liturgie FAILURE “nowadays still adheres to its authority (which it does not possess my judgement). I meant the effect with häretisch. But if one reads, what is there partly spongelike formulated, becomes the intention more than clearly!

Maledica: From the editorship removes

Benedikt: @ Hyazinth

Liturgie is located in the measuring book

Extremely one-sided conception of Liturgie. Liturgie is not only the Hl. Fair. Benediction celebrations after the Benediktionale, baptism, Firmungen, hourly prayer (as service of the municipality under presidency of the priest) etc. is likewise Liturgie. In the broader sense the committees are concerned besides with the execution of the large prayer, other worshipping hours, Rosenkranz and so on and so on. The Liturgieausschuss puts the prayer intentions to be held so e.g. firmly in which order on day of the prayer. This a minister make to let, that for 6 Pfarreien with 12.000 catholics to care has appears oneself to me extremely adventurously.

Of course the Liturgieausschuss is bound to the liturgical defaults and exceeds its authority, where it wants to intervene the minister in its field of application unauthorized.

(in the new häretisch, in the old catholic)!

This statement is häretisch.

Hyazinth: Liturgieausschuß

Each reasonable priest would thank God on knees, if his Liturgieausschuß would dissolve freiwllig. Only if time costs, is unnecessary like a Kropf. Liturgie is located in the measuring book (in the new häretisch, in the old catholic)!