A new view of the representation of the redeemer in the old Talmud
Appeared in at present, No. 11-12 of 14-27. March 2008, P. 25 in shortened form
Friday, 14. March 2008 00:39
Scheblimini: Dock-chamfers triumphed, and not does the Galiläer have?
If it would have required still another proof for the incompatability of Christianity and Judentum, from Christian faith and Jew faith, then the renowned Judaist and director for Jewish studies at the famous Princeton university (the USA) have it, Peter Schäfer, with its book „Jesus in The Talmud “(2007), which also on German appeared now, furnished in one at gel honour SAMness and clarity hardly exceeding way. The agreement, which it received nearly unisono from its Jewish colleagues and Rezensenten, makes the turn, which the Christian-Jewish dialogue took in recent time clear. It is based on honesty and not on the einfältigen speech of „our older brothers “, which „common origin from abrahamitischem trunk “or „the mutual respect “and „the tolerance “which can be practiced, which exclude the truth question and take none of the different faith convictions still seriously. Genuine Talmud Jews have anyway for such, usually from Christian side outgoing siding attempts only scorn and mockery remaining. Where itself vatikanische authorities endeavor to acquit the Jews of the murder at Christ those of its faith safe Rabbinen knock themselves self-confident on the chest, Jesus, this Gotteslästerer and Götzendiener its fair punishment to have supplied. They persist in the fact that the looking process against Jesus not before a Roman court, but before the Sanhedrin, which upper court the Jew took place, and it dock-chamfer was, who tore its dresses up, when he expressed the death sentence over the Carpenter, who equated himself with God. „“, So the rabbis in the Talmud, „we do not take the responsibility and it give a reason to therefore be ashamed, because we condemned a Gotteslästerer and a Götzendiener rightfully. Jesus earned its death, and it only got, which it earned “(P. 18). There is no justification for „the Christian sect, which states impudently, which is new federation to be and thereby, as a new religion (and not least as a church with political power) to be established “(S.19).
Before this eminent danger, which appears after the konstantinischen turn and the ascent of the Christian to the state religion for the Judentum, the Rabbinen, which found in the Persian realm refuge, leaves their fantasy to free run, in order to weaken the Christian faith. Persia is in a continuous war with the Byzantine emperors and supports already for this reason the Christian-hostile Jews during the elaboration of the Babylonian Talmuds, which becomes the most important source for the Jesusbild, which further-carries the Judentum into our days. The Jesusstellen in the Babylonian one and weakened also in the Palestinian Talmud should, so shepherds, when „Gegenerzählung are read and understood to the gospel “, by which the Judentum its self-confidence struggling for its self statement strengthens and with unrestrained pride fulfilled, which finds even still in humor and in the desire to the Parodie expression, with which the Christ faith is dismissed.
Shepherd brings the Jesusstellen scattered in the Talmud into a systematic order and lets so the contradiction to the Christian message before eyes step clearly: Family origin, pupil stage, training activity, welfare art, execution and hell punishment Jesu form the columns of the book for his collection and interpretation of the Talmudstellen.
The family origin Jesu is brought to a married or engaged woman, in connection, in these talmudischen Gegenerzählung with the absence ride Mariens, which let itself in with a Roman Legionär and which attributed thereby developed body fruit „of overshadowing “by „the holy spirit “. Instead of to offend and be stoned to death, it achieved the pardon of its gehörnten husband or got engaged, but for the talmudischen Rabbinen it is nothing else as one „Hure “(see P. 37, 39 u.ö.). Punchline this narration over origin Jesu in Talmud lies in it that Jesus was by its Roman father, „not only a hybrid, but the son of a Nichtjuden “(S.40), which could lay no claim on the descent from the distinguished house of David, how the New Testament feigns him, naturally at all. „The whole idea of the davidischen descent Jesu, its requirement, the Messiah and even the son of God to finally be “, are for the Rabbinen not different one than „fraud “(S. 45f).
In the school time Jesu must mißratenen themselves its teachers with and strike themselves in sexual dissipations being issued discipulus. It turns out for its mother post unfaithfulness is appropriate for it in the blood. It wrongly with a well-known prostitute (process card 7, 36-50) and proves the Rabbinen with the fact that it is not prophet. It makes Maria Magdalena hörig, it washes themselves its feet, combs its hair and it kisses their „for mouth “in public. This Frivolitäten almost pornographisch painted in the Talmud is to have caused the teachers of the young Jesu, have exkommunizieren it to lifetimes too „“to discharge i.e. from the community of the Jews. Jews want, which is the message of the Talmudisten, with which Christianity have to do nothing and embrace themselves under no circumstances from it „“or missionieren to let. Jew Christians do not belong for the Rabbinen to the widerlichsten features on God ground „a portion of the coming (saved) world have “become.
The Rabbinen does not deny that Jesus possessed magic forces, demons drove out, patient healed and dead one up-aroused. Which they accuse to him and its successors, is the abuse of these forces. Jesus heals in the own name, not in the name of God. It uses its charm strength for being able to spend around itself as „God “and shows oneself in such a way as Hochstapler and a swindler. And those are in the eyes of the Rabbinen also those, to which he hands over „the keys “, which symbolize the entrance to magic procedures, „to bind and solve “.
Zauberei and Götzendienst are also the reason that Jesus became hung by the Sanhedrin to death condemned and on eve of the Passahfestes (to the cross) „“. As far as Roman soldiers were involved in the execution of the judgement, they carry out the punishment expressed by the Jews. The Talmud insists on it, „that Jesus after rabbinischem right was executed “(P. 145), and not after Roman.
Jesus is killed again and again after the talmudischen Narrativen „in its pupils “. The astute condemnations of its pupils by the Rabbinen form the high point of the Auseinandersetzug over Jesus and the Christianity in the Babylonian Talmud. The young and pupil are designated of the Jews from the outset than „cheats of the cheat “, stolen to have them nevertheless for example the body Jesu from the grave, in order to pretend its resurrection.
Neither they nor Jesu have portion of the coming world. Instead of driving to the sky, Jesus on eternal simmers in hell. Jesus belongs with Titus and Bileam to the three arch-enemies of Israel, who serve all in hell their earned punishment. Titus, which destroyed the temple, is strewn burned, its ashes in the sea, filtered again and again, again bonds together and is again burned. Bileam, which near-brought Israel the Baal Peor cult with his sexual Orgien and dissipations, sits in cooking sperm. And Jesus, which pretended as God and which with God and to replace by the federation with it wanted to dissolve old federation of Israel, sits in „the cooking Exkrementen “(P. 25), which constantly separates its supporters again, if they, as been called, eat its meat and drink its blood (see P. 185). Instead of arriving by it at the life, they will divide the fate of their „gentleman “and exactly the same in hell will scorch like it. More drastic and more spöttischer resurrection, Ascension Day can be parodieren God throne and Eucharist, principal items of the Christian faith, hardly and made ridiculous.
It, all this would be missed as Hirngespinste of a few ausgeflippten Rabbinen abzutun. The history of the impact of the notes to Jesu, scattered in the Talmud, is amazing. In the Middle Ages they consolidate themselves to the Toledot Jeschu treatise, which is this very day spoken each Talmudschüler. In the modern times, then we, from shepherd didactically and presented, may further-think, do not form the astute Raisonieren of the rabbis in the Talmud often even the conscious starting point for the religion criticism „of the clearing-up “. Rejecting and way explaining of the divinity Jesu, which virgin birth, its generation by „the holy spirit “, its miracle acts, which belongs „to resurrection “from the dead ones and leaving its burial place, its „Ascension Day “, the Pfingstereignisses with the return as ghost, these rejections in the modern trend up to today to the pieces of disalignment, with which the Christian faith is weakened gradually by all half-educated ones and even by Christian theologians. The Talmudaussagen over the doubtful origin of Christ, its out-curving life, his eerie reappearance, the cults and Bluttrinkereien used by it became decayed to articles in the meantime „art “, Love Parades and entertainment industry. In the skirt opera „Jesus Christian “to „the superstar “(Rice/Webber), in the film still experiences it at the cross its „last temptations “sexual kind (Scorsese), when young man celebrates he its „wedding “with sexual inserts (Ingrisch/one), it surrounds itself with its „Hawara “(W. Teuschl), it feels probably „in bad society “(Holl) and it in tasteless Orgien and Mysterienspielen with blood and excrement symbolically beschmiert (Nitsch), completely like it the Talmud gives last.
It belongs to us to largest earnings/services of Peter Schäfer with its with the utmost care investigations on the talmudischen roots of the Christian faith loss to have led, which decomposes our culture ago from the inside by clearing-up, modern trend and Dekadenz. We must admit Betrübt today that since the second Vatikanum the church in their Hirtentätigkeit, teachings and Liturgie could not withdraw itself from the process of increasing Judaisierung and wanted. Before loud to debt reproaches, reconciliation and forgiveness requests went it before its actual enemy into the knees, it dissociated myself from the Adversus Judaios statements of its largest holy ones like Ambrosius, Augustinus or Chrisostomos, huldigte the new world religion of the Holocaust, and lost thereby its reliability. Owing to „clearing-up “today hardly still someone knows the Glaubensbekenntnis without Mentalreservation more placings, who affirms the moral regulations of the church publicly and calls sin, what sin is (e.g. homosexuality, abortion, euthanasia, Blasphemie), than „society-unable “classified and gemobbt (case Buttiglione) or it is prevented from speaking (Bendikt XVI. at the Roman university „La Sapienza “in the Feber 2008). For the outstanding one it looks now in such a way, as if dock-chamfers evenly nevertheless triumphed, and not the Galiläer has.
Friedrich Romig
Peter Schäfer: Jesus in the Talmud. From the English of Barbara shepherd. Mohr filter-hit a corner, T5ubingen 2007. ISBN 978-3-16-149462-8. 325 sides. € 29. -.
Before this eminent danger, which appears after the konstantinischen turn and the ascent of the Christian to the state religion for the Judentum, the Rabbinen, which found in the Persian realm refuge, leaves their fantasy to free run, in order to weaken the Christian faith. Persia is in a continuous war with the Byzantine emperors and supports already for this reason the Christian-hostile Jews during the elaboration of the Babylonian Talmuds, which becomes the most important source for the Jesusbild, which further-carries the Judentum into our days. The Jesusstellen in the Babylonian one and weakened also in the Palestinian Talmud should, so shepherds, when „Gegenerzählung are read and understood to the gospel “, by which the Judentum its self-confidence struggling for its self statement strengthens and with unrestrained pride fulfilled, which finds even still in humor and in the desire to the Parodie expression, with which the Christ faith is dismissed.
Shepherd brings the Jesusstellen scattered in the Talmud into a systematic order and lets so the contradiction to the Christian message before eyes step clearly: Family origin, pupil stage, training activity, welfare art, execution and hell punishment Jesu form the columns of the book for his collection and interpretation of the Talmudstellen.
The family origin Jesu is brought to a married or engaged woman, in connection, in these talmudischen Gegenerzählung with the absence ride Mariens, which let itself in with a Roman Legionär and which attributed thereby developed body fruit „of overshadowing “by „the holy spirit “. Instead of to offend and be stoned to death, it achieved the pardon of its gehörnten husband or got engaged, but for the talmudischen Rabbinen it is nothing else as one „Hure “(see P. 37, 39 u.ö.). Punchline this narration over origin Jesu in Talmud lies in it that Jesus was by its Roman father, „not only a hybrid, but the son of a Nichtjuden “(S.40), which could lay no claim on the descent from the distinguished house of David, how the New Testament feigns him, naturally at all. „The whole idea of the davidischen descent Jesu, its requirement, the Messiah and even the son of God to finally be “, are for the Rabbinen not different one than „fraud “(S. 45f).
In the school time Jesu must mißratenen themselves its teachers with and strike themselves in sexual dissipations being issued discipulus. It turns out for its mother post unfaithfulness is appropriate for it in the blood. It wrongly with a well-known prostitute (process card 7, 36-50) and proves the Rabbinen with the fact that it is not prophet. It makes Maria Magdalena hörig, it washes themselves its feet, combs its hair and it kisses their „for mouth “in public. This Frivolitäten almost pornographisch painted in the Talmud is to have caused the teachers of the young Jesu, have exkommunizieren it to lifetimes too „“to discharge i.e. from the community of the Jews. Jews want, which is the message of the Talmudisten, with which Christianity have to do nothing and embrace themselves under no circumstances from it „“or missionieren to let. Jew Christians do not belong for the Rabbinen to the widerlichsten features on God ground „a portion of the coming (saved) world have “become.
The Rabbinen does not deny that Jesus possessed magic forces, demons drove out, patient healed and dead one up-aroused. Which they accuse to him and its successors, is the abuse of these forces. Jesus heals in the own name, not in the name of God. It uses its charm strength for being able to spend around itself as „God “and shows oneself in such a way as Hochstapler and a swindler. And those are in the eyes of the Rabbinen also those, to which he hands over „the keys “, which symbolize the entrance to magic procedures, „to bind and solve “.
Zauberei and Götzendienst are also the reason that Jesus became hung by the Sanhedrin to death condemned and on eve of the Passahfestes (to the cross) „“. As far as Roman soldiers were involved in the execution of the judgement, they carry out the punishment expressed by the Jews. The Talmud insists on it, „that Jesus after rabbinischem right was executed “(P. 145), and not after Roman.
Jesus is killed again and again after the talmudischen Narrativen „in its pupils “. The astute condemnations of its pupils by the Rabbinen form the high point of the Auseinandersetzug over Jesus and the Christianity in the Babylonian Talmud. The young and pupil are designated of the Jews from the outset than „cheats of the cheat “, stolen to have them nevertheless for example the body Jesu from the grave, in order to pretend its resurrection.
Neither they nor Jesu have portion of the coming world. Instead of driving to the sky, Jesus on eternal simmers in hell. Jesus belongs with Titus and Bileam to the three arch-enemies of Israel, who serve all in hell their earned punishment. Titus, which destroyed the temple, is strewn burned, its ashes in the sea, filtered again and again, again bonds together and is again burned. Bileam, which near-brought Israel the Baal Peor cult with his sexual Orgien and dissipations, sits in cooking sperm. And Jesus, which pretended as God and which with God and to replace by the federation with it wanted to dissolve old federation of Israel, sits in „the cooking Exkrementen “(P. 25), which constantly separates its supporters again, if they, as been called, eat its meat and drink its blood (see P. 185). Instead of arriving by it at the life, they will divide the fate of their „gentleman “and exactly the same in hell will scorch like it. More drastic and more spöttischer resurrection, Ascension Day can be parodieren God throne and Eucharist, principal items of the Christian faith, hardly and made ridiculous.
It, all this would be missed as Hirngespinste of a few ausgeflippten Rabbinen abzutun. The history of the impact of the notes to Jesu, scattered in the Talmud, is amazing. In the Middle Ages they consolidate themselves to the Toledot Jeschu treatise, which is this very day spoken each Talmudschüler. In the modern times, then we, from shepherd didactically and presented, may further-think, do not form the astute Raisonieren of the rabbis in the Talmud often even the conscious starting point for the religion criticism „of the clearing-up “. Rejecting and way explaining of the divinity Jesu, which virgin birth, its generation by „the holy spirit “, its miracle acts, which belongs „to resurrection “from the dead ones and leaving its burial place, its „Ascension Day “, the Pfingstereignisses with the return as ghost, these rejections in the modern trend up to today to the pieces of disalignment, with which the Christian faith is weakened gradually by all half-educated ones and even by Christian theologians. The Talmudaussagen over the doubtful origin of Christ, its out-curving life, his eerie reappearance, the cults and Bluttrinkereien used by it became decayed to articles in the meantime „art “, Love Parades and entertainment industry. In the skirt opera „Jesus Christian “to „the superstar “(Rice/Webber), in the film still experiences it at the cross its „last temptations “sexual kind (Scorsese), when young man celebrates he its „wedding “with sexual inserts (Ingrisch/one), it surrounds itself with its „Hawara “(W. Teuschl), it feels probably „in bad society “(Holl) and it in tasteless Orgien and Mysterienspielen with blood and excrement symbolically beschmiert (Nitsch), completely like it the Talmud gives last.
It belongs to us to largest earnings/services of Peter Schäfer with its with the utmost care investigations on the talmudischen roots of the Christian faith loss to have led, which decomposes our culture ago from the inside by clearing-up, modern trend and Dekadenz. We must admit Betrübt today that since the second Vatikanum the church in their Hirtentätigkeit, teachings and Liturgie could not withdraw itself from the process of increasing Judaisierung and wanted. Before loud to debt reproaches, reconciliation and forgiveness requests went it before its actual enemy into the knees, it dissociated myself from the Adversus Judaios statements of its largest holy ones like Ambrosius, Augustinus or Chrisostomos, huldigte the new world religion of the Holocaust, and lost thereby its reliability. Owing to „clearing-up “today hardly still someone knows the Glaubensbekenntnis without Mentalreservation more placings, who affirms the moral regulations of the church publicly and calls sin, what sin is (e.g. homosexuality, abortion, euthanasia, Blasphemie), than „society-unable “classified and gemobbt (case Buttiglione) or it is prevented from speaking (Bendikt XVI. at the Roman university „La Sapienza “in the Feber 2008). For the outstanding one it looks now in such a way, as if dock-chamfers evenly nevertheless triumphed, and not the Galiläer has.
Friedrich Romig
Peter Schäfer: Jesus in the Talmud. From the English of Barbara shepherd. Mohr filter-hit a corner, T5ubingen 2007. ISBN 978-3-16-149462-8. 325 sides. € 29. -.
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6 of 7 reader opinions:
6 of 7 reader opinions:Monday, 24. March 2008 15:22
Dr. Christoph Heger: Complete version
As far as I see, to time shortened this contribution of Friedrich Romig. Who would like to have it completely, contacted me!
MfG
Christian OF Heger
MfG
Christian OF Heger
Saturday, 15. March 2008 18:25
Dr. Natterbach: I think that I read enough from the Talmud
And in principle it is enough, if one leads oneself this lecture of this rabbi to mind. Absolutely ill!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHPRSDeWfRE
The attitude of mind, which Jesus the life had cost, becomes here quite clear.
Who only worries about it on the toilet „“to remain pure, which must hate Jesus.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHPRSDeWfRE
The attitude of mind, which Jesus the life had cost, becomes here quite clear.
Who only worries about it on the toilet „“to remain pure, which must hate Jesus.
Saturday, 15. March 2008 01:20
Leblhuber: Natterbach, send to me no mails!
You wishes no contact over enamels and bombards me at the same time with mails. What is for a doubtful attitude? 
Friday, 14. March 2008 21:54
Leblhuber: @Natterbach:
And, which does to the thing?
Crucial is nevertheless, which stands today in the Talmud and reads like the rabbis it today.
And from where does straight you want to know?
You did not read the book.
You did not read the Talmud.
What you believe to know, originates from the dümmlichsten corner, which I know. If their Schreiberlinge would not like that be blööööööd, they would have already achieved that rule, which they andichten the Jews. Since they must be afraid still of the Jewish world domination, they are probably weak nevertheless somewhat on the mental chest.
The fact that the Jews Jesus reject as God probably is sun clear. If they would not do that, they would be no more Jews, but Christians.
„The faith Jesu eint us, the faith in Jesus separates us. “
Crucial is nevertheless, which stands today in the Talmud and reads like the rabbis it today.
And from where does straight you want to know?
You did not read the book.
You did not read the Talmud.
What you believe to know, originates from the dümmlichsten corner, which I know. If their Schreiberlinge would not like that be blööööööd, they would have already achieved that rule, which they andichten the Jews. Since they must be afraid still of the Jewish world domination, they are probably weak nevertheless somewhat on the mental chest.
The fact that the Jews Jesus reject as God probably is sun clear. If they would not do that, they would be no more Jews, but Christians.
„The faith Jesu eint us, the faith in Jesus separates us. “
Friday, 14. March 2008 19:32
Dr. Natterbach: And, which does to the thing?
Crucial is nevertheless, which stands today in the Talmud and reads like the rabbis it today.
Friday, 14. March 2008 18:27
Leblhuber: Natterbach, you is not straight one here the brightest poster!
Roming, this right-right conspiracy catholic, who is hofiert by the neo-Nazis, did not read the book.
The fact that it may spread its unawareness on a neo-Nazi side over it is not amazing, if one knows its ideological adjustment. http://forum.thiazi.net/showthread.php?t=55024&page=2…
The fact that he is quoted also in an Islam OF blog does not surprise also really: eisernekrone.blogspot.com
Here the Nazis meet with some Muslims, by whom merrily unites common anti-Semitism.
Shepherd says that the excessive quantity of the Babylonian Talmuds is very complex and is not restorable a “original text”. The Jerusalemer Talmud does not tell us of Jesus to anything. Also in the oldest printed Talmud nothing would stand over Jesus. There the speech is from the hell punishment of the “Frevler of Israel”, as shepherd grants.
He wants to explain scattered texts in SOME versions of the Babylonian Talmuds, which could take on Jesus von Nazareth purchase (coded denomination). Shepherd speaks therefore also of the “Gegenevangelium”.
The long speech short sense: I ordered the book straight and will read it with interest. After Easter I inform you then.
By the way, I picked myself out the places from the Talmud (Mayer).
Gittin 45 A/45 b
Gittin 56 b/57 A
T/plate-asked 116 A/116 b
Sota 47 A
Sanhedrin 43 A (Jesus? and its young, very interesting!!!)
Sanhedrin 106 A/106 b
Awoda sara 27 b
Am I to mailen it you?
The fact that it may spread its unawareness on a neo-Nazi side over it is not amazing, if one knows its ideological adjustment. http://forum.thiazi.net/showthread.php?t=55024&page=2…
The fact that he is quoted also in an Islam OF blog does not surprise also really: eisernekrone.blogspot.com
Here the Nazis meet with some Muslims, by whom merrily unites common anti-Semitism.
Shepherd says that the excessive quantity of the Babylonian Talmuds is very complex and is not restorable a “original text”. The Jerusalemer Talmud does not tell us of Jesus to anything. Also in the oldest printed Talmud nothing would stand over Jesus. There the speech is from the hell punishment of the “Frevler of Israel”, as shepherd grants.
He wants to explain scattered texts in SOME versions of the Babylonian Talmuds, which could take on Jesus von Nazareth purchase (coded denomination). Shepherd speaks therefore also of the “Gegenevangelium”.
The long speech short sense: I ordered the book straight and will read it with interest. After Easter I inform you then.
By the way, I picked myself out the places from the Talmud (Mayer).
Gittin 45 A/45 b
Gittin 56 b/57 A
T/plate-asked 116 A/116 b
Sota 47 A
Sanhedrin 43 A (Jesus? and its young, very interesting!!!)
Sanhedrin 106 A/106 b
Awoda sara 27 b
Am I to mailen it you?
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